After a while I could feel that something was going on. So I had a feel down below. And I could feel her head. And that was very, very close. So I told a midwife. She laid me down. And I went on my side. My husband was there. We had decided that because he didn’t want to see the baby and I did, that he was going to leave when I was close to giving birth. So, I at that point told him, “I think you need to go now.” And then I started involuntarily pushing. So I shouted at him, “You need to, now!” And he sort of stood up, looked at the midwife, the midwife stepped aside as if to say, ‘go. And he sort of looked at me, and looked at the midwife, looked back at me, sat down and said, “No.” Took my hand, and. It was very strange. Because it was sort of a magical moment on probably the worst day of our lives. But it was a magical moment that happened between us, when we just looked into each other’s eyes and [my husband] – holding each other’s hand, and I just pushed her out. A couple of pushes and she was out. I remember fighting with myself, actually, at the time. Because obviously I didn’t want her to be born. And I sort of had to obviously talk to myself, in my head, saying ‘she’s going to be born, whether you want it or not, so you might as well make this quick, for both of us.

Emily: We had a lovely bereavement nurse that – before we left – that came to talk to us, and went through everything, which was incredible. She was so nice, wasn’t she?

Mike: Yeah.

Emily: Because – Just to explain exactly what would happen. And I distinctly remember her saying about how every single woman that she has met says “You know, I don’t want to go through the labour, it’s horrid – I just want – can you just sort of get it out of me and get-?” You know? And she said like “There is not a single woman I’ve met that regrets doing that, and doesn’t want to then hold their baby,” and all that sort of stuff. So, but you just still don’t believe it until actually, she is right [laugh]. Which you realise afterwards. But it just seems so insane, that – you know – I just wanted it to go away, and sort of be over, because I kind of knew it was.

Emily: I still had to push and everything.

Mike: Yeah.

Emily: Because I said to the bereavement midwife afterwards, I said something like “Gosh, that was awfully hard work – I can’t imagine what it’s like to really give birth.” And she said, “But you did.” She said, “You still had to get to -.” I think I had to get to six centimetres dilated or something. And she was like, “That’s the majority of the hard work, it’s just the same, and you did really well. And you were – you know.” And again, because she was small, you sort of think you don’t, but I still had the awful contractions, I had to do the breathing, and still had to push, and all the – you know – I had to deliver the placenta afterwards. I still had to do exactly the same, it’s just that she was small.

But I don’t think I was ready for that.

I’d been on Google a lot [laugh] since I had found out that she’d died, and. Trying to find out what would happen next was really difficult, because nobody really puts it out there, that – you know – after twenty weeks, if you lose a baby you have to give birth. I think it’s after fourteen weeks, even. But nobody ever describes a labour of a stillborn. And nobody describes how quickly it’s going to happen. I mean, I know it’s different with everybody, but just having a little bit of information. And there was nothing.

[Sigh] it was, it was a good few hours. And even now, I can remember what I said – because they said it was going to be a mini labour. And when it finally came, [laugh] I can remember saying “Well, if this is a mini labour, I’d hate to think what a normal one is like.” Because it was painful, really was painful. So it was probably about three, four hours. It wasn’t very long. But when it came, it was very sort of quick. Which obviously was helped by the fact that he was only tiny.

And I was actually – they, at the [name] hospital they’ve got a room that’s called [home style birthing room]. And we were there. And I started contracting. They call it a mini birth, because it’s these mini contractions that you have. And I landed up actually going to the toilet, and that’s where – I delivered the baby in my hands on the toilet, at that stage. And I had to shout to [partner] to get the sister in. And she got someone in. And the cord was attached. And she was just curled up. So tiny. You know? She just fitted in my hand.

And how different did losing Noah at 23 weeks feel to the other miscarriages that you had had before?

Oh, it was – For me, a major thing compared to – I think the closest to that was probably when I was eleven weeks, and I miscarried. Because there was quite a bit of afterbirth, and the – when your miscarriage is the clots. Yeah. You don’t realise how much you actually lose. But I suppose there’s [sigh] – a teaspoon of blood looks like a hell of a lot. I think it’s harder when you’re actually delivering a baby, when it’s in a foetal position. And the umbilical cord is attached. So it was so thin, and – you know – I just remember just sitting there, when I caught her. I was like – she just slid out. I was like on the toilet. And I caught her in my hands. And, yeah. To me – Having a miscarriage is a lot different to having to deliver a stillborn baby.

How long did the labour last, do you remember?

It was quite – I think within two hours? Yeah, I delivered quite quickly. And what they did say was, you know – everyone says – they call it a mini birth, but there’s nothing mini about it. And she’s right. You’re in just as much pain as what you are when you’re delivering – you know – a full term baby.

I was given gas & air, which I hated. The anaesthetist came in and offered me a PCA of morphine. Which I accepted. So he sold it to me as saying that it was going to numb the pain, but it was also going to make me feel like I wasn’t quite there. And that would possibly help with the birth. And actually, reflecting back on that, I didn’t have time to have the PCA, because she was born not very long after that. But reflecting back on that, I’m actually really, really glad that I didn’t have it. Because as horrible as time that it was, and as hard as it was, it was the first, the birth of my first child. And I would never have wanted to miss that. I think that would have been really upsetting.

And, but because – Also, what that charity had done – Of course I knew my local hospital, I delivered my son there, three years before. But what I hadn’t realised – the delivery suite, double-doored, you go into the delivery suite – but to the left of that was a door. Which looked like it could be a cleaner’s cupboard, or an office, or – you know – it’s not a door you would take any notice of, because there was no sign on it. But there, what this midwife had managed to do was set up a room. So that’s where we were sent, the Wednesday that we went in to have our induced – medicine – that I was given that. We weren’t sent into the delivery suite, which of course would have been awful for me, and traumatic. We were sent into this room. Which was like – set up like a bedroom. It was a sort of a halfway between a bedroom and a sitting room, a living room. So it had a bed, a comfy bed. With, with bedding that you would have at home, not hospital bedding.

It had tables, chairs, a TV. It just Рbasically, we were going to have a hellish Wednesday, but we were in this room that we could lock. We were given a key to it, so if we wanted to go to the caf̩ we could. It was our stuff. It was our room while we were delivering Emily.

And that room, really. We couldn’t have done it – if that – If we hadn’t have had that room, it would have been an awful day. And of course my family didn’t know we were going to be in that room. They knew we were going to the hospital, they thought we were going to be dumped in a hospital delivery suite. We weren’t. And so they were really pleased by the time – I think I maybe probably texted and called them from the hospital. But when I had a real chance to tell them that we had been in this really nice room, decorated beautifully, a real home from home, they were really pleased to hear that that was on offer to us.

Actually by the time things started happening, we got transferred to one of the special rooms, they’d become free. And it was when I was in that, I realised what an amazing facility they are.

You know, there was – We were much more comfortable. And they had – They had the sort of birthing room and the bathroom, and then they had a sitting area. You know, where you could make tea and coffees and things. And then there was also another little room, where you could put the baby afterwards. Which was amazing to have.

And you stayed in there for the rest of the time?

And that’s where I gave birth in the end, yeah.

Yeah. And it was special because it was just a bit more cosy, and you had that room?

It was special [sigh]. Yes, it was much more comforting, but that extra room was so useful. Because you can take your time to work up to see the baby. Because you don’t know what to expect. I kept asking what to expect, and they said, “Well, it’s a baby.” [Laugh]. But Daniel, he was born completely in his sac, as can happen quite a lot – can happen anyway, can’t it. But, so I couldn’t see anything. And it was – He actually came out when I was in the toilet [laugh]. So I was in labour for a while. And the one thing I remember that you don’t have with a live birth is they can give you morphine, they can give you any drugs you want. So it does make you more out of it [laugh].

And I went to the loo, and he actually came out then. And then they took him away to clean him up. And they put him in a little Moses basket in this room. And you can prepare yourself to go and see him. So I went to see him immediately.

And the midwife who was allocated to me, she – she was absolutely great. She said, “I’m due to go off duty in a couple of hours, but I’m not going to go home, I’m going to stay with you until you deliver this baby.” She was, she was brilliant.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And did that make a real difference?

It did. It did. Because they – it – they were so caring, and – What they done, they used like lavender oil, and stuff like that, so like aromatherapy. And like used – gave me like pethidine, and like gas & air and everything, to make me more comfortable. And basically were there all the way throughout the labour. And they were absolutely brilliant. And round about five o’clock that night, I delivered the baby. And they asked me, and said, “Look, would you – would you like to hold the baby? We can – we can dress the baby for you.” And I said, “Yes, please.” So they, they put the little baby in a little, like a little outfit that they had made. And I held the baby. And they took photographs for me. And, and also they took footprints and handprints of the baby. And because the room that had been set up, there was – there was like a bedroom – like a room where parents could like deliver the baby, or sleep.

Yeah.

A bathroom. They also had what they called the cold room.

So that the – you could spend as long as you wanted with the baby, without worrying about like the baby[s appearance] deteriorating. And then there was also like a living room, as well, with a little kitchen area. And it was set away from all the other wards. On like the maternity ward. And you had like your own entrance, so that you didn’t have to come across parents that were leaving with their babies, and – and things like that.

Tell me about what impact that –

That had – That was really good, because I felt really cared for, and a lot of thought had gone into the room. And it had everything that you needed to make your – like your life as comfortable as possible. And I know like my husband found it a lot better, because he – he was able to go out without – out of the room and come back in, without having to go like through like the maternity ward. And that really helped.

Michelle: And we were left on our own for most of it, weren’t we.

Iain: Oh, yeah. Very isolated.

Michelle: And they just, “Going to the toilet – and always, you know, go to the toilet in a bowl. You know, one of those paper sick bowls, whatever – poo bowls. And then always check, to make sure that there’s nothing in there. And then just put it on the side.” So, that was your job, wasn’t it. I mean, you were amazing, because you stayed by my side the whole time. And you know, I’ve heard stories in – since then, of women being on their own in the toilet, where they’ve just not known what to do with it when it’s come out. And they’ve either flushed it down the loo, or they’ve put it in the sanitary thing by the side of them. And then they’ve had massive regrets. So, Arthur didn’t come out in the bathroom.

Iain: Mmm.

Michelle: But you, you sort of lovingly kept an eye on what was coming out, didn’t you.

Iain: Mmm. Mmm.

Michelle: And I remember that being quite a fearful time. And I was really ill. I got really bad diarrhoea, didn’t I, from the induction.

Iain: Mmm. Mmm.

Michelle: And then we were just on our own, weren’t we. And I felt really violently sick. And I was sick. And at the same time as I was sick, the baby came out. And I didn’t see it. But you did.

Iain: Yeah. I saw the umbilical cord. I guessed, because I didn’t know. Because obviously the cord’s a lot thinner and tinier.

So sort of saw this thread hanging, and I thought ‘right. So I pressed the buzzer, and no one came. So I had to go out and leave you alone. I had to go out and try and get someone’s attention, and ask for help.

Michelle: And that’s not what you’d normally do, is it, as a person, so.

Iain: It was just irritating. You know, when you have a birth, you have several people not leaving you alone, and then when you have another birth that isn’t a live baby, they’re not interested. You know, for whatever – busy elsewhere, I guess. But it was hard work all day, getting any attention, really.

And then, you know, obviously at the moment of – And you know, okay I’ve [sigh]. I don’t know how to put this. Whether it helped or not. But I’d been at every other birth. So I’d at least become an expert on how she gives birth. So at least I was confident with what she was going through, even though you’d got to go through all that, which is hard anyway with a live birth at the end. You know, that’s hard work, keeping you going, supporting you, and – you know – making sure you pull through, for a live birth. Knowing at the end of it you’re not going to get a baby is – you know, knowing that’s what you’re going through, to – It’s even harder. So, but to be doing it with zero – pretty much zero support, you know, in a room on our own – you know – that was quite hard work. And then to have to go and try and grab some attention at the end, “Could you help us find out if this is what we think it is?” You know? [Laugh]. It wasn’t ideal.