And so you went to hypnosis at one point?

Yes.

And it helped. Tell me a bit more about that?

I’m not really sure what to say. It didn’t work for me. But I’d heard miracles about it. How people had gone and said that they, you know, they were going to quit. They not only quit, they started going to gym three times a week and they still do and it was all wonderful. It didn’t work for me. But I think you know, hypnotism, it’s not everybody can go under and they couldn’t hyp me. I couldn’t. I was awake the whole time. They couldn’t whatever it is, go to that. I fought it apparently. So

And was it during a session that you had a panic attack?

No it was afterwards. It was afterwards. Because I think a little bit of it had come off on me in the fact that my it’s really weird to explain, like physically I didn’t want to reach for a cigarette. Like my head was saying no don’t do that, no don’t do that, but my body was going you need a cigarette. I was lit so I was having this battle going on. That I didn’t quite know what to do with. So yes, I found that really difficult. But I think that was probably because I hadn’t gone under enough. I hadn’t gone deep enough for it to really work for me.

The first proper attempt was when I had the hypnosis, but because I had the gum and the patches and they hadn’t worked, I felt I needed I knew I couldn’t just give up like, even though I’d done it when I was 20. I just felt I couldn’t do it. So I had the hypnosis. And I really thought I really would because I did actually want to give up. And I think if I’d just turned up as a smoker and hadn’t thought about it, it wouldn’t have worked. I’d walked out of there and had another cigarette.

But because I’d gone, I really wanted to give up smoking. I paid a hundred quid for the privilege of being hypnotised. I knew damn I wasn’t going to give in. I just thought I was going to.

I mean it worked for a year I don’t know why I think it was just, I think it was a mental thing. I felt I had been hypnotised and therefore I didn’t need to smoke. But looking back on it, I don’t actually know if I was hypnotised. I don’t even know if I had if I actually believe. I don’t know. Because throughout the actual process I was just sat there in the chair and I didn’t feel any different. All I was aware of was this chap talking to me, saying you’ve got to give up smoking and you want to give up smoking and you’re not going to smoke, and you’re going to keep repeating, “I am a non smoker and I will be a non smoker for the rest of my life”. That phrase is still in my head, but I don’t if I actually was hypnotised and I just wanted to believe, because I wanted to give up I want to believe and it worked for me.

But as I said earlier what was my downfall was personal problems. Tragedy in the family. And then it all fell down. But I don’t know if I actually I definitely was hypnotised or went for any session to be hypnotised but whether I was hypnotised I don’t know. I certain wasn’t running round pretending I was a frog or anything like that, but you know, yes, it’s all a weird one I don’t know. I’d have to look more into hypnosis what it actually is.

I understand that people going through problems listening to this chap, but people going through hypnosis on the regular basis, self-hypnosis, when you’re driving, driving in the car and you do the route on a daily basis, and there are times when you can’t remember getting from certain point to certain point. You’re mind apparently is in a self hypnosis. It’s self preservation. Your mind’s not going to let you do anything that’s going to cause you harm, but it shuts down and you think you never you maybe away with the fairies but you’re still driving that car, you’re still safe, but it’s not all there a bit. So

Are you seeing anything sort of looking back at hypnosis had I asked you say if you had gone out of a session, have you been hypnotised? What might you have said to me?

I think I probably would have said, Yes. Because I’d just paid a hundred quid, god damn it I was hypnotised. But yes, I honestly don’t know if I was hypnotised. I think it was a tool that I needed I still don’t know whether I believe in hypnosis. As a real tool, I mean it’s certainly I don’t know. I mean I really don’t know whether that’s how you feel when you’re hypnotised. My mindset at the time though was I want to give up smoking. This is a tool.

It was almost like being brainwashed. This bloke was going on about, You’re not going to smoke. You’re not going to want to smoke. And it was basically around this chap saying this. At the time you feel opposite and your body’s going to say no, your mind’s going to say no. I don’t know. It just, looking back on it, I have got this feeling that I was, I actually thought ya di, ya di, ya di, ya di. But I was like I want to give up smoking so I believed it. I could be wrong. But that’s how I feel about it.

Well you read the book first and then you listen to his CD and he tells you, all the, there was a programme when he went on stage and he tried to say to this person about stopping to smoke. One of his background people was listening to him and after the programme the person in the background stopped smoking. It was strange. Because all that Paul

McKenna.

Paul McKenna was saying it was rubbing off on one of his workmates. You know, the camera bloke or the lighting bloke whoever, and after that he stopped smoking and he believes that it was Paul McKenna. So I have got the CD and he, he sort of counts you down into a trance, you’ve got to sit in a quiet room or lay down, however you feel comfortable. Close your eyes if you want and just listen to what hes saying to you. And I used to think well if I’m not in a trance, is it doing me any good? But you do listen to it all the way through. It’s very calming and you can even fall asleep and apparently it’s still working on you. So whether that helped I don’t know, you know, but it was interesting.

In the olden days with the spittoons and where they used to just spit into these spittoons, he said, and that’s what’s in your lungs. Just imagine the picture of looking into one of those. I mean they’re horrible, it used to turn my stomach to even think about it. He said that’s what’s in your lungs, you know, and every time you light a cigarette you think of that. Or he said, try and think of something really, really nasty so each time you light a cigarette bring that thought forward into your mind, and that will turn you off the cigarettes. Do, I can’t remember, do something with your hands as well. And when you’ve finished it, you won’t want a cigarette. I can’t remember everything. Theres lots of different things in the book. You know, it’s worth a read, you know, and the video was very nice, because it was nice and calming and relaxing and there was soft music and little bells here and here, One in one ear and hed say, you’ll hear this in your right ear, and you’ll hear this in your left ear. Sometimes theres two things going at once. But it’s, it’s very good, it’s very relaxing. So I think may be that did help.

And I felt, I was feeling better each session I had. And of course they ask you a load of questions when you first attend, and want to know, Do you smoke? Yes. How many? About 60? How many? 60. It’s a wonder you’re still alive. I know. I was nearly dead though. [Laughs]. And after a few weeks [name of nurse] come over to me, and she said, Look I’ve been practising hypnotism and I’d really like to take you on and try and get you to stop. I said, You’ll never do it [name of nurse]. Never in the reign of pigs pudding, I’ve tried everything. She said, Well I’d still like to try. I says, Oh all right then.

Anyway it took a few weeks and then she phoned me, and she said, Can you come up? Because shes a very busy woman, theres a lot of people are having heart attacks. And I went up there, and shed got a side office there. Lay on the bed, and I can remember the words.What was it like?

But I knew what was happening. But the words that pressed my buttons was, I want you to take yourself back to when you were young and fit. What she said after that I have not got a clue. Because I was thinking, blimey, yes, I used to run the mile, I used to do cross country running. And look at me now I couldn’t run fifty metres. I can’t, I can’t even walk fifty metres. And that’s all for the rest of the session that’s all I was thinking of. And I could just picture myself running, you know, and I think that was the bit that did it actually, the hypnotism.

So she give me one more session and I just, just never wanted to smoke again. So I told the no smoking clinic. I said, I don’t need these tablets anymore. She went mad at me.

I later had a session of acupuncture, where they put a little needle in there [points to ear] for a fortnight and then they take it out, and they put another needle in there for a fortnight [points to other ear], and when you feel like you need a cigarette you just put your finger tip on the round little bobble on the needle and just go gently rub it, and it kills the craving. Well when it was in this ear [points to left ear] it did and it was wonderful, and for a week I cut down by about 50% and the second week I hardly smoked. I had to go back to the acupuncturist, out it came. Another one in this ear [points to right ear]. It didn’t work at all. I smoked as much with this one, I was going like that [rubs right ear]. I was almost pushing the bloody needle into my brain to and I didn’t, I just carried on smoking as normal. I went back to the acupuncturist and said, Could you swap me back. No, sorry it will affect the energy channels in your body if I put it back in there. So I thought can’t have that. So, that didn’t work.

Well the, actually, I must admit I first started reading, thinking I know what you’re doing. I know exactly what you’re doing. Because it starts, you know, it makes like I’m not going, I’m not going to tell you, I’m not going to tell you, you know, it’s bad for your health and things like that. And you think yes, you’re telling me that, but you’re not telling me that [laughs].

So, I thought, the first time I read it, it kind of half got in my head. I knew that I should pack up and it was right and it is a book which tells you everything you already know. So it is telling you that it’s bad for you, but in a way that is not condescending or it’s not like your doctor, saying, Oh just pack up it’s bad for you, you’re going die. Its making you think, yes, but I know it’s bad for you, rather than somebody else telling you. So, yes, it is very repetitive obviously because it’s… I assume it’s like cognitive therapy really, you know, it’s just self help from a book.

So I actually enjoyed it. And I’ve really, I actually felt that I knew Allen Carr at the end of it. It is really strange, and I missed him when I finished the second time. The first time, as I say I was a little bit dismissive, because [because I lasted a little while and started again, and the second time it really, really jarred in my head. And I kept it for a while because I thought, just in case I slipped off the wagon, I’ve got it there. But I did actually give it away eventually, because I know I don’t need it any more. But yes, I did, it was a very odd experience to read a book that’s telling you everything you know. And you’re in denial. So…

So can you tell me what happened on the second reading of it, if you see what I mean?

What happened on the second time that didn’t happen on the first time?

Yes.

Nothing, nothing happened different. It just gelled. It just actually clicked into my head that it was right and I knew it was right, and I did actually know, sat in that chair over there and, I’d left myself one cigarette, because the book tells you not to stop smoking. So that you’re not battling while you’re reading it, but as you’re reading it, you’re getting less and less that you want to. So I kept one cigarette and I really wanted the last cigarette and I went outside and I knew as I was smoking it I was never going to smoke again. And I just could, I couldn’t believe it. Because hed said, you know, at the beginning of the book, he says that he knew he was smoking his last cigarette, and I thought, that, you know, that’s an incredible thought that you could actually smoke it knowing, and I just went outside, and actually I hadn’t decided it was going to be that day either. Until later in the day. I decided, it was the Sunday and I decided I wouldn’t go out, and normally I would go out on a Sunday. So I had this, I had this packet of cigarettes and you know, I kind of timed them and left myself with one and then I went outside and smoked it. Bye bye smoking and never smoked again. Never even thought about it.

So you were saying that you had had the Allen Carr book?

I did read it. Yes. It didn’t do a lot for me if I’m honest. I didn’t, well I say I didn’t agree with his way of thinking. It’s not that I didn’t agree it, just reading a book, and so reading too much it almost just goes over your head, which is why these very little interactive sort of chunks that they send you through, bite size pieces should I say, they’re so much better. Theres just too much information from him.