And when they first mentioned it to me, again as when I’d seen that sign, I was really surprised, really quite shocked that it was something that was being considered and it was quite, I guess it was quite frightening because it just seemed so different. You know, I’d got used to medication, I’d even got used to the idea of hospital and everything else, but ECT just seemed really different.

But on the other hand by then, we knew nothing else was working. And I was very open to any suggestions. And also quite scared, because I knew that [name of wife] would react very strongly against the idea of, you know, shes been reacting very strongly against the very idea of being ill, so I knew that this would be really, something really extreme that she wouldn’t want to get involved in.

So the first thing that I did. As soon as it was mentioned was I went off and looked it up on the internet. And I was really, I was really aware that sort of looking on the internet is problematic because you’re never quite sure where you’re getting your information from and you can quite quickly get into people with kind of maybe agendas and fixed ideas.

But I came across some quite helpful stuff. There was one information sheet from the Royal College of Psychiatrists and one or two other things that seemed quite kind of level headed and quite kind of, you know, this is the evidence, these are the studies that have been done. This is, you know, this is what it is, for starters because I think I still had my kind of mental pictures from films. And actually to be told right, this is something that happens under general anaesthetic. This is the procedure, to how long it lasts, this is the after effects. That was really helpful. And then you know, the actual statistics about its effectiveness seemed really surprising. Do you what I mean. I can’t remember what it was, but it was something really significant, like oh I’m going to guess, but you know, like 60 or 70% of treatments are successful as opposed to 20 or 30% of medication courses.

And it was kind of puzzling that nobody really seemed to have a clear answer about the process by which ECT might be effective, but then also nobody seemed to have much idea of the way in which medications are effective. And, you know, like I said, by then I just thought, you know, well in a real mess, well try anything that isn’t actually dangerous. It’s got to be worth a go.

Well my feelings about ECT go back to over 20 years ago when I worked as a nursery nurse in a mental health unit, and part of my work as a nursery nurse was to help out in the ECT suite twice a week, and I saw, I had to help, I had to be with the people when they were coming, when they were having seizures after the ECT and just assist in the ECT suite, and I always said I didn’t want anybody belonging to me or any of my friends ever to go through what I was experiencing.

20 years down the line my husband has been offered ECT and I thought back to my words. Oh is this really what we want? Obviously things have changed over the 20 years but it’s still the same initial ECT. So I spoke to the staff who recommended it, I spoke to the consultant who recommended that my husband had ECT.

I was given literature to read up about it. I also looked on the internet at things, so I sort of really thought I needed to go into it in depth.

And I was offered ECT then and I don’t think I even thought about it much, you know, kind of they said it might help and quite honestly at that point I couldn’t care less what they did or what happened and I think probably I was fortunate in that, when I’d done my nursing training, because I became a nurse when my children were growing up I had actually been to an ECT session. So I suppose that, for me, in any case it wasn’t something that was totally new. But as I said, I couldn’t have cared less what they’d done at that point.

And obviously, you know, from your medical background you’ve seen ECT and so on. Can you remember what you thought about ECT before you?

Well I thought it was probably for extreme cases [laughs]. And that you know, kind of, it wouldn’t be for most ordinary people you know. I suppose really because I didn’t do psychiatry it was just a little part of the training. You king of go in one day and you see it, but you don’t know anything much about psychiatric problems and diagnoses and so on. So you don’t have a very sensible idea of what it’s used for. You know, you learn very little in one day’s visit really. It’s surprising how little you do learn.

So what should I know about ECT. I had these ideas of Victorian treatment for those with mental health problems, of frontal lobotomies, of people being held down, because of course they didn’t bring out suitable treatments for a lot of these schizophrenics and sort of bipolar people until the 1950s, and I just felt that it was just the case of, really you were in a prison and this part, this, the ECT was part of that scenario, was part of that old ideas of treatment and things. Why were they bringing it into the modern world?

And I thought how are doctors using something and they don’t know how it works? Would you really do it in any other sort of like, life situation? Wouldn’t you really want to know? And I suppose its individuals that don’t. I’m just very curious. I think that’s why I said, initially before you started sort of recording this, I find it very difficult to understand when people had got a medical problem and they don’t know what, you know, how to describe it, what it really is. They’re just given a name. And you ask them what mediation they’re on and they say I’m on tablets. But they don’t what it is, how it sort of reacts with its contraindications and I just feel generally, not just with ECT today theres still lack of information. I think theres such a lack of information. I think theres the assumption that everyones on the internet and they’ll go find this information out for themselves, and a lot of human beings aren’t, you know, in that sort of state of mind or they don’t really want to know. They just want to take the tablets and hope it all goes away.

No, I was given no help by the NHS. I really feel that they’re on their own agenda, and you’ve got to fit in their little box. And if you won’t fit in their little box, Then we can’t help you. Well, people don’t fit into boxes. You know, we are all, you know, incredibly unique and different. So, no, I got all my research offline. As I say, I was looking at Harvard research papers, and Sweden’s got a very good reputation for a lot of, mental health stuff, as has parts of Australia. So, I was reading up about, round the world, and, you know, how they were using it. And that was what was driving my desire to go forward with it. Not really what they said. No, they weren’t really, they didn’t really explain it, to be perfectly honest.

And then, obviously, it wasn’t so, it wasn’t so much the treatment that put you off as the surroundings

The environment.

and the aftercare that was offered?

Very, very scary environment, yes. I mean, I have to drive past the hospital quite often, and I have this sense of relief, you know, nine years later, that I didn’t go in that place. Yes. I just remember going in there, and it just was not inviting, at all. It just instantly was, and the people in there weren’t particularly, I was expect-, I suppose I was expecting someone to be very hold your hand’ kind of attitude, Come on now. I know you’re in a bad place. Let’s, let’s sit down and talk about your options here, and why were considering this option for you, and why we feel it could be the right move forward. But it wasn’t. It was very, Well, you know, this is what’s on the table. If you take it, you take it. If you don’t, you don’t. And if you don’t, theres nothing we can offer you. Oh, thanks very much you know. I, as I said, I’ve said before, I was actually told by, one of the mental health team, that as far as they were concerned. And my father had come to this appointment with me, and it was just before I was going to go for the ECT, because they were desperate for me not to do it too, so I was going against the whole family, I’m part of a close family. And he said to the doctor, There must be something you can do. And she said, You must remember as far as the NHS is concerned, it’s classed, the British NHS is a sinking ship, and even the rats are leaving. And that’s what they told a mentally ill person. Which is nice [laugh]. Thanks for that, [laugh]. What country do you suggest then?

I mean I was offered ECT in my first consultation as an inpatient and at that point a lot of what they were saying to me was very, it was very new. They were trying to get a handle on the diagnosis for myself and give it some labels. And I knew I wasn’t comfortable with that. So when they offered me ECT in the first week it wasn’t I didn’t care about it, but in a sense I didn’t. You know, it was just one more thing they were offering me and I didn’t feel resistant to it or I didn’t feel frightened about it. I guess it felt a little strange because, you know, What is this? But I guess there was also part of me, a small part of me was a bit intrigued. So there was probably a little bit of an interest there to see exactly what this was. So I guess I felt quite, quite okay with it. I wasn’t, wasn’t nervous and I wasn’t fearful of it, you know.

That’s a fascinating word to use that you were intrigued by it. So there was a kind of curiosity?

Yes, because you, you’d heard so much about it on the TV and you’d seen it in documentaries and you’d think, Oh, actually what is this? And I guess I didn’t believe it would work, to be honest, because nothing else had worked, you know, the psychotherapy, the antidepressant tablets. ECT, it was just like one more thing in a long list of things and, no, I didn’t really think it would work, to be honest.