You’ve got to live. You’ve got to be yourself. If you’re if you are gay, if you are an argumentative person, no matter what you are, if you are a bit of a bit of a snob, just be it. And, and sod anybody and everybody, anybody else.

Why is it important to sod other peoples opinions?

Well, whose life is it? You’ve got to live your life according to your morals, principles, likes, preferences and the rest. And it’s your story. You do what you like so long as you’re not hurting, offending and upsetting other people. But how many people do we all know who live nice protected lives because their parents expected of them, because peer group pressure, because everybody in this village behaves like this. Well sod that.

Otherwise you might end up living someone elses life?

You live someone elses life. It’s coat hangers isn’t it? Sorry you’re not going to put me on the coat hanger. I can stand on my own. And if I don’t like a particular job, I’m not going to do it. If I don’t want to live in a tiny village in rural [area name], I’m going to move. You can do these things. Takes a lot of courage, determination and planning and thinking through and resourcing. Hey, where are we going to get the money from to move. You make your own destiny.

If I want to go and walk in the hills on the weekend when I’m off. I will go and do it, whereas before there was always other people that I had to consider. And it’s not that I waltz out now and leave them all. I make sure that everything is alright.

But if I want to do something, or I want to go into town and meet a friend for coffee or go out in the evening and meet a friend for a drink, then rather than turning it down because, you know, I feel that I need to be there all of the time, or that I will be thought less of if I’m not there all of the time, you know, I am quite able to sort of say to my husband or to the children. and fortunately they are getting older and more independent. that I’m going to pop out for an hour. I’ll not be long. I’ve got the mobile phone with me, I’ll see you whenever I get back in again.

So I suppose those are probably the most’ and also because I am much more able to relax, I get less wound up by things so if I just want a weekend of chilling out and not doing anything I’m much happier about saying it, you know, I don’t want to do anything this weekend. Just want to sit here and vegetate.

I stopped myself from doing things because I didn’t think there was any point in doing it, and because I was afraid that I might get embarrassed about something. And I realised that. you know there were only so many opportunities you’re presented with in life, and therefore you have to seize the day and try and take those opportunities, so long as they’re not overwhelming. And that’s how come I ended up, you know doing, going out and meeting some friends who were interested in the same kinds of things I was. And beginning to develop a bit. a bit more of a social life, a bit more of a normal social life, I think’

And one of the things I found really helpful was to work out what, what I really needed, when I was very depressed. What I really wanted, how I wanted to live and, and use it like a mantra every day, because I understand that we can train our subconscious minds to… to go the way we want them to go by teaching them what we want them to be. And so everyone has to do it for themselves.

And, and mine was, when I was really depressed, mine was, “I’m calm, cheerful and creative”. And I, when I walked anywhere, I would say that over and over and over, not necessarily out loud in case people thought I was quite mad, but I would say it out loud if, if there was no one around, but certainly in my mind, “I’m calm, cheerful and creative”. And you formulate, you work out what you want to be, how you want your life, to live your life, what’s important to you, and retrain your consciousness and you…when you’re depressed you’re in a state where you can’t aim for anything, you can’t do anything, but you can do that I think. I know you can because I did it.

I continued to have the anxiety attacks, it turned into… it turned into agoraphobia actually, in that I would drive to work, I would walk down to the office, that was OK. But it was walking far from the car… I could go to London from the train, I could go anywhere, but walking too far from buildings and things like this.

So, I mean, I didn’t really know much about I was doing. I heard something on the radio about agoraphobia and I started doing what they said on the radio. I started going out for walks and we had a very hot summer so… the summer I was there, I would walk on the seafront and I would gradually walk further and further away. And I realise now in hindsight because I know a lot about this, that I was desensitising myself, and it worked pretty well. But that, that agoraphobia kept coming back in periods of my life, when I was under stress, it kept coming back. It didn’t cure it, but you know I got over it.

When my son started school…I actually went into adult education… to an evening class, which was labelled counselling. But in fact when I went there… it was only 1 evening a week, it was more on… self-awareness. It was a mixed class… and that’s one of the points, that was one of the big turning points around that time.

Those classes went on in various forms and another for about 2 years. And we covered some areas which were incredibly painful, and I would sit there thinking, “What am I doing here, why am I putting myself through it.” But in fact, I learned so much it’s… it’s a big part of my journey. Over 2 years I actually had 2 different teachers… both were psychosynthesis trained, which was a method of psychology I’d never come across before. But it was sufficiently interesting to keep me going for 2 years. I met some terrific people in these classes… I suppose we were all on a similar journey, and they were… it was worth going… I wouldn’t go back and undo it.

The Incapacity Benefit I got plus my occupational pension enabled me to get by. my father left us a little bit of money, which enabled us to pay off our mortgage so we didn’t have to pay the mortgage here, and also we were able to have the conservatory put up, you know that paid for that. So you know, there was a lot to give thanks for within reason.

I suppose a disappointment for me was, in a minor way, having to leave work in the circumstances that I did. I’ve hardly seen anybody from work since I left, I suppose I was in a bit of a state, I suppose, they were perhaps embarrassed by me, I don’t know, I don’t know. I’ve not seen many people from work, and it’s not that far away.

But somebody once said to me when you leave work, you’re forgotten in a matter of hours or so! Somebody else said, ‘As long as that, I thought it was twenty minutes!

I think it’s (depression) sort of made me question what I thought was good about my life because I was in a very busy and hard-working career, and whilst the depression wasn’t the main, or the only reason, that I left, there was a re-organisation at my work, I do think, oh, thank God I left there when I was 36 rather than 56. You know, I understand that I need sort of time for me now, and that I’m a person in my own right, and I’m important and I have, you know, the right to have some quality time for me. Whereas perhaps before I didn’t…I might have thought it but I never actually did it. I think it puts things…. sort of life into perspective and you…. some of the sort of silly inconveniences of life you think, whereas before you might have got het up about them, now you just think, well, so? Or, so what? [Laughing]

Anyway I had quite a varied life, but I tried to do various things like for instance, I tried to be a farmer and it was too’ too much for me. And I had, I suppose you could call it; a sort of a breakdown when I was that was when I was seventeen. So I had to give up the idea of farming.

Then I went into my father’s law firm, I got a university degree in law, which I found really hard but I did it. Went into his firm and after about twelve years as a solicitor I reached the point where I couldn’t do the work any more at which. And I used to be very angry with clients coming through the door, I just wanted to throw them out really. I couldn’t concentrate on work. And so I thought you could get a pill to cure you of this if you went to a doctor.

But whether’ I didn’t really want to be cured of it because I’d have to come back into law. What I want to do is leave this bloody awful job, which I should never have gone into in the first place.

And so I left the left law and I had a bit of money, a relation of mine had left me some money, so I had enough money to keep going for a year or two without working, and so deliberately drifted. And I quickly felt better from the symptoms that had stopped me doing the law, and I went to an organic gardening school run by a private man who is a writer on organic gardening, and I did a year’s training with this chap. And then I went to a Rudolf Steiner further education college and I got training in what they called biodynamic agriculture, which was. it’s a sort of organic plus.

That there is hope, there is, you know. That isn’t the end. I think your feeling is, “Right”, particularly if you’re ageing you know, “Right that’s the end of my life, that’s the last thing I’ll ever do”, you know. “And all I’m ever going to do now is either retire or whatever”, you know and certainly things change totally, and a lot of things…a lot of opportunities opened up which I would never have thought had happened.

Strangely enough there were certain things, practical things that made these things happen. One was a… a friend of mine bought me a mobile phone and that opened up the social side of things, which it hadn’t existed before. So and then the other thing was I started playing around with computer graphic packages, Coral Draw was one I was working in, and I’d started doing kind of abstract art basically using that. So sometimes there can be things that can facilitate things happening, but I think you definitely need to, I mean I started using the phone more than I’d ever used it in the past. So it was a communications thing.

It made you more social?

Yeah, I’d probably go out more, I’d have a drink and that sort of thing, which I’d not done before. But that came partly because of being involved with the band. So the band would be going off and wed go off and have a drink together that sort of thing. So you get to talk to quite a lot of people that way.

So I think probably for a year I hardly went out of the house. I, there was a ladies group on a local church that I used to make myself go to because I…you know the doctor had said, “You need to get out. You need to exercise”. Which was laughable because I could hardly walk, never mind actually do any exercise. But I made myself get on the bus, go to this meeting. I could just sit there really and not say anything, just be amongst people. Felt like hell [laugh] and came home. And just continued to just be vague about what was wrong with me to people. Fortunately I had changed jobs so I didn’t really have friends who followed me up from the new job because I’d not had a chance to make friends. People from my old job didn’t know what had happened to me because of course I’d left there.