Father’I think that they have to empathise with the difficulty of making a decision under the kind of glare of media speculation. Suffice to say I think they probably presented it as a kind of considered decision to be made rather than an inevitability. I think if they’d presented it as an inevitability I think people who maybe think they’re informed and are worried will then recoil from that. So I think they should present it as something that is to do with, you know, it’s a considered decision rather than a kind of inevitability. And I think probably it’s probably best if they relate their own sense of dilemma and research and some of that uncertainty in it all.

I think if a doctor presents it as a certainty and is blas’ and brash and confident, over-confident, that would certainly make me recoil and think twice. Because it would make me feel they’re selling it to me rather than giving me the facts, which I’m sure the facts can be disputed otherwise they wouldn’t have been a scare. I’m sure the facts are that actually you can’t say categorically that it doesn’t cause autism. So if someone were to tell me, maybe statistically this and this and this, but if they were to be very persuasive and very categorical that would make me recoil from any clarity about what I actually was going to do.

I think where you, wherever you felt they were talking from their own opinion rather than from the government line you, you were far more likely to trust what they were saying. If you felt they were regurgitating something they didn’t believe, and you can kind of generally tell when people are sort of spinning out a, a line. Whereas when people were fairly adamant that it was, you know, kind of not worthy of, paying too much attention to, I was much more reassured by that. Not to encourage people just to lie about it, but it’s, you did genuinely kind of want to know what they would do with their own children rather than what the government line was.

And although I know that it’s very difficult in a, in a professional thing, theres a limit to how much you’re allowed to say, as a parent all you want to know is that your childs going to be all right. And so it, it’s not reassuring to know what the government line is. It is reassuring to know that ultimately your doctor as a professional feels that your childs going, on an overwhelming basis of evidence, is going to be fine at the end of it. And it may be that they’re the same thing, but you want to have it from their personal opinion rather than from a kind of government line, that someone is going to take responsibility at the end of the day for what happens. And I think, not in that you’d want to sue them or, just that your childs, you know, basically all you want to know is that your child is going to be okay. So anything that reassures you about that is probably the best way forward.

They said, after they’d weighed her they said, ‘She is due for her MMR. And because I came at the end of the session the nurse was just kind of lingering around basically. And I said, ‘Yes, but were choosing to do the individual. And then the nurse heard and she walked in and she said, she said, ‘Oh, but, no, don’t worry. Just the one jab, it’s just quick. ‘No. And I thought, ‘I’m not going to get into this with her because I don’t need to. I said, ‘No, no thanks, no were fine. ‘But, now, look, just a, I’ve just got it here. Quick, come on, just come in. It’ll only take a second. Shell be fine. And I’m like, ‘No, I’m really, no, were fine. She said, ‘Oh, come on’ and then she started laughing. And I thought to myself, ‘It isn’t just a quick thing. And she just did not understand. It’s a decision. It’s not about just something quick, kind of, ‘Oh, look, I’ve got five minutes, quick, we can get it done. And I thought, ‘That’s really not the right attitude to have, and definitely not to press someone.

The good way is listening properly to what you’ve got to say and to what you’re asking. The impression I got when I was first given advice at the first hospital, was the fact that the registrar had, had a quick word with the consultant before, looked at my note. The consultant said, ‘Well when you see the patient, well, patient’s mother’s, say this’ and say that’s what she did, so she couldn’t’ I mean, maybe shes still training, so she couldn’t answer any more questions. Then she went and got the consultant and he wasn’t listening to me either.

And I think, that when I spoke to the paediatrician immunologist, he sat quietly, he listened to everything I said and then he gave me his response to my concerns and I think that was the big difference.

It’s very easy to’ especially if you’ve come across things before, just to, and you’re busy, to feel impatient and think, yes, yes, yes, I know, I don’t want to know all about the details’ this is what your question is. But actually if you listen to someone properly, then it might not be their question and then you might be able to reassure them about things that you didn’t know that (they) would ask you. So I think it was listening properly and answering your question, rather than just telling someone what you think they should be asking you, because that then’ yeah because it’s almost like you had a prepared answer that you’ it was almost like the consultant was getting frustrated with me for not asking the question, he wanted to answer [laughs]. And I’ve seen that in lawyers, a lot as well, where they say, ‘No, you, what you’ you don’t want to ask me that question. You want to ask me another question. And I know the reason they say that is because they don’t know the answer to the question, that you have actually got. So that’s what I would say.

I think again as in anything, particularly in parenting, you’re always doubting yourself anyway. And, and I think just for somebody to have had a listening ear really and just to have had more time, just to have said, ‘Well as were discussing now, you know, ‘What, exactly what’s concerning you? Why are you sceptical? What, what has brought this to your mind?’ You know, ‘What…?’ And actually listen and just say, ‘Yes, I understand where you’re coming from. And then perhaps being able to give facts and figures and information from their point of view.

We also had a really bad time with doctors as soon as we mentioned the three letters MMR it was almost like a switch flicked and either they got incredibly defensive or we were blinded with apparent science. And I said, ‘Look, please, you know were not interested in scientific evidence. What were saying is that there are three possibilities, and you’ve discounted the trauma,, this leaves the chicken pox or the MMR as possible culprits. And at every turn we were stonewalled.

There was one day when I went in and a doctor was talking to my wife who was in tears and was telling her that it was none of these things and that they were going to look for a sort of mystery virus. And I said, ‘Well why are you looking for a mystery virus when you have a possibility that three cultivated viruses that were injected into her may well be responsible?’ And he said that they weren’t even going to consider it. And I said, ‘Well surely that isn’t logical?’ I didn’t question his scientific or medical knowledge, I said, ‘From the point of view of logic surely these should simply be investigated.

And in fact he and I had a stand up row, on the ward, in front of all the other parents who got upset of course. I tried to keep calm and as far as I know I was calm, at one stage he turned to my wife and said, ‘You’re getting very emotional about this. And my wife had to walk away because what she of course later said she wanted to say was, ‘Well, you know, if you can’t get emotional about your child having what appears to be some kind of brain damage, what can you get emotional about?’ And I said to the doctor, having my wits about me a little, ‘Do you have children yourself?’ and he said, ‘No’ I said, ‘Well I’m sorry but you can’t possibly know what it’s like to have a child who appears to be brain damaged who is apparently totally healthy two weeks or so ago.

I would have just liked the doctor to have said something like, ‘We understand your concern. He may even have said at the time, ‘personally I don’t think that that’s responsible, but of course well look into it. And if hed said just that I would have been reassured. He didn’t listen and in fact he lectured me and not only that he started to argue with me.

It is very important because they should respect your worries, they should be there, they should listen and they should help you out of these worries. I ended up crying there because I actually felt like, ‘They really don’t care in a way. I mean it’s not the right way to say it but they really don’t, how do you say it in English? they don’t want to come down to your level and understand your feelings in a way. They only have the medical information that is actually given by probably the government or the health authorities and that is it. Theres no personal approach at all. I think that the personal approach is missing, because a doctor is more than just a conveyor of information from health authorities, especially a GP, because he sees you frequently, he sees your child frequently. I think the personal touch is missing, really treating you in a way that you are an individual and not just, ‘Okay, I’m conveying the message I have from the health authorities and that’s it. And I’m not interested in anything else you have to say.

I was more reassured as well when people had clearly looked at the evidence. Where people were able to say, ‘Look, this is…. I mean I, as I said before, ‘This is what the research was. This is what is was based on. This is the kind of outcome of it. And where they clearly themselves had considered what the issues were rather than just, ‘It’s fine. Don’t worry about it. It’s not worth worrying about. Where, it’s just not reassuring at all because you’re not even aware of whether they really know what those issues are. It was much, yes, much more reassuring. You felt that they too had considered as a professional and weighed up on a balance of judgement whether it was likely to be detrimental or not.

Well, I think that a trainee doctor, who’s setting up their own surgery, this is not only for immunisations but for anything, it’s very worthwhile to think about what their waiting room is like. Because if you’ve got a waiting room that’s got no toys in whatsoever, children get very irritable. And also if they can make their immunisation clinics at a time that’s suitable for mothers. I mean to make it half past two to half past three in the afternoon, I think because in the general world, people don’t have so many children, so it could be that the person, child that they’re immunising is their only child or that their other child is, theres a big gap. But with the Orthodox Jewish community, some people have a child like every eighteen months. And so when they’re taking their child to be immunised, they could easily have a child in nursery as well that has to be picked up at half past three. So a doctor needs to think about their immunisation clinic times, what the waiting area is like, and make sure they have enough immunisations for that clinic. Someone shouldn’t have to go there and then find they haven’t got the immunisation available.