So yeah, I mean I mean things, I don’t think she’ll, I don’t think she’ll ever stop doing it. I think I think the better she gets, the longer the gaps will be between her hurting herself because she, because she will find, it’s not just that she finds that she’s found other coping strategies but the things that she found very difficult before that would have made her feel the need to cut, are not so scary anymore or not so uncope-able with anymore, for want of a better way of putting it. Do you know what I mean?

The enormity of these things has diminished to the point where they’re now normal everyday things rather than big scary things that she couldn’t deal with, which would have made her want to cut herself and now she goes, “It’s not very nice. Oop, never mind, okay, we’ll get on with it.” So rather than going, “Oh, panic, need to cut because I can’t cope.” She deals with things so it’s, for her it’s part of a bigger picture I think in in terms of therapy, life experience, I think life experience is a huge part of it.

You know, I, you see, as a Samaritan, you see lots of e-mails from, we get lots of e-mails from younger callers and you see lots and lots of teens particularly, talking about [coughs] stuff that they find difficult, stuff that for them is just the hugest catastrophe in the whole world, you know. End of world stuff, the usual kind of thing you get from teens, you know, splitting up with the boyfriend, all this sort of thing and you look at it and, because it’s not written down I think you’re more conscious of it and I often find myself thinking, from my standpoint at my age with my life experience, “That’s a really minor thing.” But you only get there through living through feeling like it’s the end of the world at fifteen or sixteen.

Yes.

You have to live through that and live through the more painful stuff that follows on from that to be able to go, “That’s a tiny thing.” Because you have something to compare it with. At fifteen, sixteen, it is the most catastrophic thing that’s ever happened to you so you respond like that. At forty eight, it’s kind of like, “Yes, it’s painful but, do you know what, there’s a lot worse out there, actually.” I’ve lived through that and I’ve lived through worse and there’s probably worse to come and, do you know what, we’ll just have to kind of knuckle down and get on with that and it gets here because that’s life. But you don’t have that perspective at sixteen and I think that’s the other thing that’s changed for her is is her perspective has broadened as life has given her more, as she’s gone out there and experienced and done more, that that’s I think that’s a huge part of it.

That kind of going, “Oh okay, what would have caused me to cut myself, to panic and cut myself when I was sixteen, now, you know, so what.”

Yeah, yes.

For lots, for her in particular but I think it happens for lots of people, who maybe grow out it sounds patronising but I can’t think of a better way of putting it, who reach a point where it doesn’t become as necessary as a coping strategy anymore.

Yes.

That that’s an opinion, for what it’s worth, but it certainly been the case I think for my daughter.

She was still probably, self-harming but not as much. and she had a lovely new boyfriend, who’s still in her life now two years later, who again, really young, like her, only twenty two but amazingly able to accept her for the person that she is and I suppose, coming up now to more recent times, my daughter hasn’t self-harmed in nearly two years. She hasn’t had a terrible episode of depression. I mean winters were particularly bad. It always seemed to be wintertime and, in fact, it always used to be around Christmas time and I think there were psychological issues, family issues, but the last two Christmases she’s been well. No, sorry, the last one Christmas she’s been well. She last was ill two years ago but now we have got through a December without her being seriously ill and I think, once you start realising that you can get through that Christmas or that anniversary or that year, maybe you become more confident in yourself. 

Also, she’s grown. She’s grown emotionally. She’s now sleeping. Her medication seems good. She’s worked out how to make sure she doesn’t put on weight. She exercises hard three times a week, which is amazing. This is somebody who hated exercise, who wouldn’t even walk to school when it was only ten minutes away. I asked her, I asked her why she thinks maybe she stopped self-harming. I didn’t actually get the answer that I wanted but the answer was, she loves her boyfriend and she saw how devastating, how devastating it was to him and very selfishly, but not in a nasty way, I, I you know, we, we talk about these things and I said, “So was my devastation not enough. Did that?” But as she says, she goes, “But mum, you didn’t really show it.” And of course, I didn’t because you don’t burden your child with any of your stuff. 

You die inside, you take it away but, faced with someone, you know, a, a young man of twenty two, who for the first time is faced with a beautiful young woman who was harming herself and that she couldn’t hide it from him, it’s made her stop and I imagine that that means that she now doesn’t turn to this as an emotional crutch because there’s been emotional stuff. Also she’s on good medication that enables her to sleep, keeps her more balanced and I’m hopeful. I never get complacent. I never take anything for granted. 

Also she’s on good medication that enables her to sleep, keeps her more balanced and I’m hopeful. I never get complacent. I never take anything for granted. 

She is remarkable. She is so wise and she will talk to people about her experiences, if, you know, if appropriate and it’s been a long, long journey and sometimes she questions the medication she’s on. I mean she did go through a phase, and I suppose I hadn’t remembered that, she actually decided to come off her medication overnight, went cold turkey, wanted to be normal. “I don’t want to take tablets anymore because I want to be normal. I want to be like my friends, who are sixteen, and they don’t take tablets.” So she actually came off tablets, her tablets overnight. She ended up sleeping in a car park by our local shops because I mean you cannot do that. You cannot come off hefty medication. 

I think she accepts her medication now. I’m a true believer, if it helps, take it. If you were a diabetic and needed insulin, you would. As we know in mental health issues, it’s a brain, it’s a, you know, it’s our brains, if they’re not balanced they might need something to help them. Maybe one day, she, I mean, I think I think there were times when she did, when she was younger, when she did try and withdraw off certain meds but she got scared. She got scared. Maybe now she’s older, one day but, as I say to her, “You’ll know when the time is right and you’ll do it with good help from your psychiatrist and people, you know, who know but it aint broke at the moment.” It really isn’t broke. 

For the first time, I would say in ten years, twelve years, life feels amazingly normal.

And slowly, and it was slowly and it did take a lot, he started to say to me, “Mum, I don’t feel like I want to really carry on with this cutting.” Now part of that was he used the band technique, which is an elastic band, put the elastic band on their arm or arms and they skit it, you know. They pull it, stretch it and then feel the pain of it because what they’re trying to do, I guess, is, you know, feel a sense of reality, a sense of themselves. So by doing that, it’s acknowledging that they are actually in this world and it’s the same as the cutting, the blood. That’s them recognising that they are, I guess, I mean I’m not a doctor, but from my own experience.

And so, yeah, so he used the band technique, which was good. He did cut down on a lot of the cutting, to be quite honest, which for me was a relief.

I think the saving grace for my daughter has been an ability to acknowledge that it’s not a productive way of coping. That it’s, that it’s a harmful and a damaging way of dealing with things and I think acknowledging that has enabled her to change her behaviours and I think I think that’s the thing, until you go, “That’s not really a very good way of coping with stuff because it hurts or it leaves me with scars or it causes pain to me and other people.” You don’t ever move on. 

What do you think was the turning point for him that, you know, somehow, when he stopped self-harming?

Yeah, I think, for him, I think it was probably an awareness of actually that there was more than just what he thought there was. You see, at the time when he was in his low moods, he was telling me that he was having a low mood and I was actually thinking to myself, “Well, this is scary. Every time he keeps telling me, this is scary. Do I really want to hear it?” But I did want to hear it because I needed to know that nothing more was going to escalate but, at the same time, it was actually having a knock-on effect on me as well. So that was difficult but still keep listening, I think that’s important. But what changed it, I think it’s because he knew I was backing him up one hundred per cent. He knew if anything, if he was worried about anything or anything, if he had someone backing him up they were there, they were supporting him one hundred per cent. He knew that I loved him to bits.

No matter what but I think it was more that I was actually just there. You know, when he wanted to go to the appointment to see a psychiatrist or something, he couldn’t do that himself. It was actually really, really tough for him to do that.

So, by having me there to come with him, that was almost half the battle really. It was like I was taking that on for him.

So he didn’t have to think that for himself because to think things is stressful, it’s really stressful to think things when you’re in a dark mood. You know, so it was good that somebody else was taking that on. So a lot of that was the basis of supporting, you know, that they didn’t actually feel they were out there, you know, being on their own. 

Because you can’t do it. You can’t, no matter how the will in the world, sometimes you just cannot do it and even to pick up the phone, you can’t do it either, to let that person know but they think you’ve let them down but you haven’t. It’s just you’re so low in yourself. I think also the future, talking about the future. He really wasn’t expecting that one. He really thought this was what I guess the low mood was, the low mood and he felt he couldn’t get out of it, that he said there didn’t seem anywhere, way out. But I keep talking about, what would he like? What would he like to, you know, he could have children. He could he could meet someone and he could be happy and he could have a lovely life, and a family and how the family thought the world of him, how important they were to him.

Yes.

And that they would miss him and if they saw him hurting himself that would be upsetting. You know, not saying upsetting as in, that he should feel any pressure to that but that they cared for him. Yeah, that they cared for him.

Yeah.

And that they wouldn’t want any harm coming to him. So I think it was a lot, making him feel that he was part of something, yeah, that knew him and knew him well. And putting the comedy films on and things like that a lot of stuff I played back to him was things that he’d actually liked from his past, you know. There was one, I don’t know, a film, if I can mention it?

Yeah.

A series in particular was Only Fools and Horses.

Oh yes.

Because there was a camaraderie of family in their humour, in their adversity and humour and he could really, really associate with that and I think and even to this day, I mean we go to the conventions [laughs], But he’s really kept that in his mind because he played that over and over and over, you know, and even sometimes when he’s feeling a bit low now, occasionally, not so much, but he still says, “Let’s get the Only Fools and Horses on, mum.” And I’ll say, “Yeah, let’s do that.”

Yeah because for him, that really made him laugh, you know, because he felt the sense of family in that, yeah, because there was brothers together no matter what, so that kind of sense of feeling is important.

And also the worth, that you’re constantly telling them that they’re brilliant, they’re wonderful, that was fantastic, well done, God, that was great, thank you, oh, that kind of thing. All the time you’re just telling them all the time constantly.

She eventually stopped doing it anyway because then she realised that there were people who did genuinely care about her and there were two friends or peers from her school who started coming in the mornings, when it was proving difficult especially during the winter months. It was very difficult for her to get up and go to school, so there were two of her peers who’d come religiously every morning and call for her, you know. So for me, that was a great support and it was also a motivation for her to get up because there were people waiting for her and literally willing her on to come to school. 

Yeah, and eventually the self-harming just phased out, you know, because she realised that, you know, she couldn’t keep doing it. She couldn’t keep hurting herself. She was, obviously, leaving scars on her skin. She’s got beautiful skin and I would say to her, you know, “You you’re beautiful. You know, you’re my princess. You don’t need to keep hurting yourself. You don’t need to keep, you know, inflicting all that wound on yourself. I know that you’re hurting. You know, Mummy, she doesn’t have the capacity to take the pain away.” Because a lot of it is internal and that. 

“But.” I said, you know, “Just try and take one day at a time, you know, just think about the things that you want to achieve in life.” And then I’d sometimes take her down memory lane and, you know, because, as a family, we’ve always taken her on holidays and we’d take her to exotic places and stuff so she was well travelled as a child. And so I said to her, “Try and remember the last holiday you’ve been on and things you did and, you know, the times when you were at your happiest playing in the pool, you know, or in the children’s club or.” You know, and things like that so I sort of try and do things to distract her and that seems to have helped as well. Yeah.

Some people have spoken to me, who have not got a history of self-harm themselves and whose daughters, in each case, are cutting.

It’s very important for them to think about stopping, about, about how the young person is going to stop, been able to stop and they hear from therapists that it’s got to be their decision. They’ve got to want to stop themselves. I’m just wondering for you and, and her what, what role does the whole idea of stopping self-harm.

Play?

For [my daughter], speaking for [my daughter], she doesn’t want to self-harm. She doesn’t like doing it and she doesn’t want to do it. She doesn’t want to scar her body any more than it is and she really hates herself for doing it. For myself, I never had any of those problems. When I met my partner, he was very anti self-harming and he said to me that, not that he was disgusted by it, not that, but it hurt him.

Is this her father?

No.

No.

This is. 

Your more recent partner.

My recent partner, her father never took any notice at all [laughs] of it, not one bit. My most recent partner, makes me sound like I’ve had loads, I’ve only had two, [laughs] he was a recovering alcoholic when I met him and we kind of made a pact, not literally, but a kind of an understanding if he drunk, I always said if he drunk I wouldn’t be with him. But he, it was, well, he wouldn’t drink and I wouldn’t cut because my cutting upset him so much. Plus I, once [my daughter] had established this self-harming, I felt that I was compounding it by self-harming myself so I felt that if I could stop myself self-harming, I could lead her by example. So I wouldn’t be hurting her and I wouldn’t be hurting my partner. 

And I think this recent self-harming that I did was it was kind of a backlash because I’m not with my partner anymore, that was my decision and because [my daughter] had self-harmed in front of me, it was like actually, I want to do this for myself. I know that probably sounds really strange for somebody who’s never self-harmed but it was something, I wanted to self-harm and because I’d stopped myself doing it for other people, it just overwhelmed me and I, I really, I wanted to do it. It wasn’t even a need. It was wilfulness on my part. I was saying, “I’m important.” I know it’s a strange concept because I was actually, doing something fairly destructive but that was my thinking. I’m not proud of it, but that was the way I was thinking. 

So with regard to your question about, you know, the self-harming and stopping self-harming, it’s, the only person, you have to make that decision yourself, as difficult as it is for other people. They can’t stop you self-harming. You can decide not to self-harm because you’re hurting them. If, you know, if that’s something that you can get your head around but it is a really difficult thing to stop doing because you feel like something’s been taken away from you and you have to make that decision yourself.

Some people have talked to me about their son or, son or daughter I was going to say. In fact, it’s all been daughters so far stopping but they don’t, they’ve said they’re not complacent about it.

No.

Because they don’t, they can’t be absolutely sure that it.

Won’t start again.

It won’t start again.

Oh no, no, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah and yeah, I’m fully aware of that so no, I’m definitely not complacent. I still sort of keep an eye out and everything and keep an eye on her moods and stuff I think she’d tell me [laughs]. I don’t know whether she will or not but I think she would. I’m not sure but it’s not just that, I’m also aware that, you know, if, I dunno, she finds herself in a sort of difficult position emotionally or mentally over the next few years, it might, you know, end up coming out of some other sort of behaviour. So yeah, as opposed to the cutting it could be something else [laughs]. Yeah.

We ended up getting a psychologist involved, via the school, who saw her privately, and she was enormously helpful but and did a lot of assessment of [my daughter] and her of [my daughter] and her general sort of mental health and well-being and, which obviously also covered the self-harm. And she probably was the biggest helping factor in getting to the point where we are now, where [my daughter’s] state of mind is much better. She’s much more like old [daughter’s name], mostly. She hasn’t, as far as I know, self-harmed for maybe two or three months but this has happened before and we’ve thought that she’s past it and over that and then something will go wrong. She she’ll fall out with a friend or she’ll have a, you know, a boyfriend issue, which sadly she seems to want boyfriends and it always causes problems [laughs].

So but something like that might set her off again and then it will come back and then it’s awful when that happens, because you think she’s moved on.

She managed three years at university without self-harming. I can’t say that maybe she never self-harmed but maybe just once or twice in the whole of the three years. 

So that’s pretty good and I think you have to take a long longish term view of this. You can’t rush them to stop it immediately, which is what you’d like to do or I wanted to do in the beginning. You can’t despair of them and turn your back on them. I think you have to find a way together to talk about things, to find out their triggers for it to try and reduce it, to take a longer term view and to keep, you know, hopeful and supporting them until they no longer need it.